Tulving Bankruptcy Second Creditors' Meeting Summary

This page is a summary of The Tulving Company's second Creditors' Meeting (a/k/a first Chapter 7 Creditor's Meeting). I have placed a copy of the audio online here.

Note that this is NOT an official transcript. It is a summary of my interpretation of what was said. In some cases, the exact words are used. In other cases, the spoken words are paraphrased. Please refer to the audio for exactly what was said.

Unless I missed something, all words spoken were by R. Todd Neilson, the bankruptcy trustee, unless otherwise stated. DoJ stands for the Department of Justice.

There was little new information in this meeting.

Anything in italics are my comments.

00:00	This is a Chapter 7 341(a) hearing for The Tulving Company
00:30	Only 1 person, not a creditor, a lawyer, there on behalf of a creditor.
00:45	Mr. Tulving is not here, nor any representative of The Tulving Company.
01:05	Only the attorney is present, no creditors. There are no people here, or downstairs where we held the previous 341.
01:45	Another attorney showed up, said there was a long line at the door.
02:00	Is there anyone here who wishes to elect a trustee, other than myself? No hands up.
02:30	Where the debtor is not present, I usually open it up to questions people have.
02:40	Q: Some creditors were selling gold to The Tulving Company, is gold in possession that gold, or from previous orders?
03:10	Mr. Neilson: First, I will answer that. Then I will address some misconceptions that may have occurred. Answer: I don't know, there is nothing on coins to identify ownership. I was informed (by ex-Tulving employees) that those coins had been there for a long time.
04:10	I don't know that at any point in time you will be able to identify that these coins belong to X person.
04:25	Last time we were here we talked about the fact that there had been allegations of speculative trading between Mr. Tulving and a company called A-Mark. At the time I reported that primarily because that is what I had heard, and in conjunction with that I had spoken with the CFTC that said that they were looking
04:50	at that issue. I unfortunately, I think some of those comments may have been taken out of context and some people may have run with those comments and created their own website information and it became carried that certainly farther than I intended to carry it.
05:25	I have no concrete evidence as I sit here that A-Mark and Mr. Tulving engaged in any of those transactions. On the other hand, I have no concrete evidence that they did not either. And that is the essence of my prior statements, that we were looking at that.
05:55	We basically received a zip drive of the books and records of Tulving, which was retained by one of the employees, the bookkeeper. We have since submitted hard drives to the Department of Justice and they have agreed to provide us images of the computers. We have purchased and provided them with that image. It is my understanding we have either received it or are close to receiving it.
06:30	Once that is done, once we have all of the records and information which we need, we will conduct an unbiased and thorough investigation of the cash flow of the entity for a reasonable period of time. We won't go back eons in time, we won't go back that far, we will go back as far as I think we need to to present an accurate picture of what has occurred.
07:10	No one should infer by that that there is any dispositve(?) findings which I have at this point, there are not. One thing that I learned when I was in the FBI conducting investigations is that what people assume to be the case and what people may hear to be the case is not always the case. And in fact, it changes over time. So we are continuing that investgation, continuing that analysis, and will report to the court and interested parties when we have concluded that.
07:55	Q: Coming back to the issue of the gold, I know there were a lot of people selling their gold to Tulving, up until almost the time of their bankruptcy. Have you conducted any investigations into where that gold may physically have gone? And is there any reason to believe that Mr. Tulving has taken that gold and hidden in somewhere?
08:25	Mr. Neilson: We have not done that analysis. I again don't know whether Mr. Tulving has hidden that gold or whether he took the gold and sold or it whether that gold was seized, I don't know.
08:40	Q: Do you know whether the DoJ -- I don't believe they have actually filed criminal charges -- at the last hearing you indicated that there was a grand jury subpoena out for him. Do you have any insight into the status of the potential criminal action against TTC or Mr. Tulving?
09:10	Mr. Neilson: It is my understanding that there is no pending criminal action against the company itself, separate from Mr. Tulving himself. I am aware that there is a grand jury proceeding occurring, that is all I am aware of. Why I am aware of it is because of various subpoenas that have been issued. I am completely unaware of what happens in the confine of that grand jury. I am not privy to any information from any parties relative to what is spoken there, or what information they are deriving from that. It would be a
09:50	criminal act if somebody were to tell me. So I certainly do not expect that to occur. So grand juries operate for a period of time, then they no longer operate, I don't know that the time is, when I was in the FBI it was 6 months or something like that, then they have to convene another grand jury or there can be instances where that timeframe can be extended. I don't know any of that. I just
10:25	know that they have been conducting a criminal investigation. I know subpoenas have been issued to various parties, and I have spoken to various attorneys in the DoJ in an attempt to obtain a cooperative investigation. But I understand it is a one-way street, we do not get information, we generally just give information.
10:55	Q: There was speculation that Mr. Tulving and/or The Tulving Company was engaged in commodities futures trading, and although you have no evidence one way or another whether A-Mark was involved in that, do you have any information as to which company or institution The Tulving Company and/or Hannes TUlving was engaging in commodities futures trading?
11:30	Mr. Neilson: I have only heard rumors that he was engaged in commodities futures trading. I have no other information. JG: I have information -- he had an active account with PFG when they filed for bankruptcy. He would have likely opened an account with another firm after that. And certainly nothing no information about his involvement with A-Mark, as to whether or not that took place.
11:45	Q: If evidence did come to light that he was engaged in commodities futures trading, would you as a trustee be looking into whether or not the entity that he was engaged in those transactions with could potentially be liable due to the fact that he was presumably using his customers money to engage in that practice?
12:10	Mr. Neilson: I really can't comment on that one way or the other. Until we decide that that indeed occurred, then there is no need to speculate as to what actions could be taken or may be taken.
12:25	Q: I have noticed that Mr. Tulving is not here. Have you had any communications with him? Mr. Neilson: Personally, no. I have had communications with his lawyer.
12:35	Q: Do you have any idea where he is right now? Mr. Neilson: I don't know.
12:50	Any other questions? (no)
12:55	This will be a conclusion of Chapter 7 341 hearing for The Tulving Company.

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